Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Welcome to another episode of Moving to Maryland. Hi, it's Ron. I'm here with Brit and Mick. How's it going, guys? Great.
Speaker 2 00:00:09 We're doing great. Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 00:00:11 A hundred percent. So excited to have you guys here. Now, uh, today we're gonna talk about a business area. You know, we've been talking mostly about communities. This the first time that, that we've talked about a, a, a business community. So Tradepoint Atlantic, uh, is an area that was redeveloped from Bethlehem Steel, right? Correct. Correct, yes. And you guys have both moved your businesses there? That's correct. You guys are both married, by the way? Yes,
Speaker 3 00:00:35 Yes, yes. To each other as well, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:00:39 And so, um, let's, let's talk about trade point in Atlantic. Uh, what would you say it means to that area? Like where it came from, a piece of land that wasn't even being used?
Speaker 3 00:00:51 Yeah, I think, I mean, so to your point, the old Bethlem Steel Bethlem ship plot of land, where at one point there were 45 or 50,000 employees that were either making steel or using that steel to make ships. And over the last 2, 3, 4 decades, as steel has continued to decline in the United States, that piece of land has just sat there dilapidating and, and literally rusting around itself. So, you know, the fact that somebody wanted to come in in 2014 and buy the remnants of, of that piece of land, which is the largest piece of industrial land in North America at 3,500 acres, is just completely ignited. Uh, a lot of excitement and, and some true commerce opportunities for the area.
Speaker 2 00:01:30 I also think there's a lot of sentiment around that plot of land. I know for me personally, both of my grandfather's work there, as they call it, working on the docks. Uh, I always say I'm not sure how much work they actually got done there, but they loved it. So, um, you know, being there, they're, they both have passed, but I would've loved to ha have seen them experience us being there now. And I think a lot of people in the area experience the same thing. Well, my grandfather worked there, my great-grandfather. So that piece of it, uh, is really special to the area. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:02:02 The rebirth of an area like that, I, I, I think is amazing what it's, you think about like how, uh, important it was to the area and generations of people growing up and building families and getting to levels of success in life, and then it dying out. It's like such a slow moving ship, but now to be like, you know, where it's, where it's moving in the right direction. So what, um, is so good about that area, uh, other than the size? Is it, uh, the, the access to highways? Is it, uh, the port? What, what, uh, what makes it such a attractive area for you guys? And we're gonna get into both of your guys' business a little bit, but I, I just wanna get into tra trade, play Atlantic. So people, you know, that are thinking about moving here and moving their business there, understand like, really what, what the big benefits are?
Speaker 3 00:02:45 It, it's all of them. It's everything you just said. So you have, uh, 6 95 running right next to it, uh, 95, not too far away, but it still has all of the infrastructure that Bethlem Steel has. So whether that is a deepwater port, uh, rail, massive rail access, and, uh, the, the work they're doing to the Howard Street Tunnel, which is gonna open that up and allow for too high container access is huge. It'll double the capacity of that area. Um, there's a, a, uh, water, um, treatment plant on site, which has Niagara beverage moving in to be able to produce water and using all of that existing infrastructure. So you're talking about, you know, 2 12 19 was a city and it has all of, all of the assets that a, a city has. And that's, uh, a huge draw. And, you know, for the, the, the people that run Trade Point, their challenge is bringing all of that back online is a continue to come offline slowly over time, as the demand went down, now they're bringing all of that back, whether it's a container port or water processing or rebuilding all of the roads that were sitting there crumbling.
Speaker 3 00:03:48 Uh, it's all coming back online and, and in different speeds simultaneously. It's, and it's really fun and fascinating to watch.
Speaker 2 00:03:54 Yeah, and I, I, if somebody asks what's so special about tpa, putting it very succinctly, it's the largest, um, north American industrial park that's multimodal, which means water trucking and, um, rail. And that's fr from two people that run businesses that heavily rely on bringing products in and getting them out. That's certainly, uh, an advantage for us
Speaker 1 00:04:21 Like tpa, like if you're in the know
Speaker 2 00:04:24 TPA <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Mick says it all the time and people never know what he is referencing, so I have to remind him. True. Not everybody knows what TPA is, but hopefully that changes. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:04:33 Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:04:34 Yeah, I, so I was in technology back in the day and, uh, you know, I would talk to some sales people that, what I could tell they were like acting techy, and I would say, well, what's the, uh, i e e standard for that? Uh, is that 8 0 2 0.3? And, you know, they'd be like, what are you talking about <laugh>? Bust out the acronyms. Yes. Oh, yes. You know. So, um, so let's talk about your businesses, Arnold Packaging, and then Brett, we'll get into yours. I, you know, what, what, uh, made you guys attracted to that area? Like why is, is there a good reason for other people that are there to do business with, or all
Speaker 3 00:05:08 Of the above? So we turned 90 years old this year in, uh, in 2023. And we've always been for the prior 89 years in one zip code, 21, 20 30. So we have been in Baltimore City our entire history, and I had been watching Tradepoint Atlantic come about, been watching its development, and at the same time, looking at our lease. We had had leased our spaces and have, historically we've never owned, um, our last two buildings. We did way back when, but realized that our, our growth was too explosive and we might be hampering ourselves and trying to buy buildings and stay in them for a period of time. So I've been watching Trade Point come online and having conversations with friends that are in commercial real estate who introduced us to, uh, the team, Carrie Doyle and Mark Solo that are building Trade Point. And it, it just aligned, you know, we, we've experienced six straight years of double digit growth.
Speaker 3 00:05:59 We had maxed out the capacity in everything that we do, which is packaging, manufacturing, and distribution. So the idea that we could build a building to our spec, uh, with all of the latest engineering capabilities of 40 foot ceilings and, uh, wide columns and all of the things that, that industrial businesses need to thrive, whether it's yield or productivity or flow, to go there with a blank slate and, and start fresh was very, very attractive. And, and the team at Trade Point Atlantic made it very easy. They were our partners and building it out and helping us to create a facility that, that we can stay and, and thrive in for certainly another 10 years. And, and I would say that if we blew out the confines of that space, we would go find another space on the campus and probably move one of our business units, our container manufacturing, plant, our distribution. We would probably move a, a self-sustaining unit to a new facility, which would be easy to do there. So that's very, very attractive as
Speaker 1 00:06:54 Well. So now, Brett, your business is, is, uh, watching your growth has been exciting because you entered into, um, you know, a, uh, a type of business that's really dominated, I think by men.
Speaker 2 00:07:07 Very much so
Speaker 1 00:07:09 <laugh>, right? Is that understatement?
Speaker 2 00:07:10 Yes. So construction and it's the largest male dominated industry in the entire world, maybe next to mining, but they go one or two,
Speaker 1 00:07:20 Right? So, you know, we've been friends for a while and, and watching your growth has been, uh, really awesome. I love, uh, watching my female friends, uh, uh, you know, blow up a business and especially in, you know, when the odds are stacked against you, you know, growing a business, but in a male dominated business to, to carve a niche and to succeed like you have been. So on top of like why you're attracted, can you tell a little bit about your origin story and how you got into it and uh, and and, and then kind of blend in, uh, the, the tpa?
Speaker 2 00:07:49 Yes, absolutely. So quickly, I, I was, my whole life growing up with soccer and I was playing professional soccer, and the league in the United States was folding. It wasn't financially stable. So it was this abrupt point in my life where I thought I was gonna play soccer like every young kid does forever. Um, even though I, it was my career at that time, and I had to make a decision was I gonna continue to make no money and try to pursue this dream of playing soccer forever or get into business? And it was the perfect transition for me because I felt like I'd achieved everything I wanted to in soccer. I played at every level. And at that time, I ended up going to work for, and with my uncle who works, he's the VP at Gras Mc Lumber. So most folks in Baltimore knew Hulu Grasmick is, he built out Canton.
Speaker 2 00:08:37 He was one of the early investors in Canton and Federal Hill and Fells Point, and is very instrumental in building this, this part of the city. So I learned a lot in working with them. And my uncle said, listen, I know you don't care about construction. We'll teach you everything you need to know about the industry, but we just want somebody getting, getting our face in the community and exposing, you know, who Gras Mc Lumber is, went to work for them. And I just fell in love with construction industry instantly. I, I found that people woke up early, they were hardworking, they were very honest, very blunt, uh, sometimes to a fault, but it just all resonated with me, especially coming from a very hard, uh, athletic, stringent life. So fast forward, I worked for a GC development company and then started my own company.
Speaker 2 00:09:25 We sell construction materials, tag construction and supply. And this all ties back to Trade Point at Atlantic very beautifully because I was still working for an employer and the master plan for both Tray Point Atlantic and Port Covington was coming online and I recognized it, and a lot of the money was coming from TIF Money State. And I was realizing, well, they're gonna need women owned or minority participation in these developments. I was like, man, I, I could start a business and just float the entire business off of these two developments if I could get involved. And it was that point, it all clicked and I decided to go out on my own. And since it's been, you know, tremendous growth, we grew 69% over the past year and Trade Point Atlantic made so much sense. You know, we wanna be the best, the best construction supplier there is, but it definitely dominate it as a woman owned business. Like we've gotta do everything we can to get that competitive edge. And being at Trade Point Atlantic, it is one of those things that we can do, um, to, to maximize and optimize what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1 00:10:30 If we weren't talking about construction and we were in like, uh, a soccer huddle, it, you know, you talk like an athlete trying to compete, you know, where, where, you know, it's super competitive and that's what you gotta do to be successful in business. So it's really, um, you know, like, that's cool. That's super, super cool. Um, what, uh, you guys see both of you, uh, over the next five, 10 years in growth and, and, um, is tpa like really, uh, critical to that, important to it? Like how important is that location
Speaker 3 00:11:01 Critical to us? You know, we do a lot of work in storage logistics. I mean, one of the things that, that allows us to differentiate is stocking product for customers, helping them to specify it, but then also having it on the floor for next day delivery will do things like vendor manage inventory. So having that type of space availability and being able to offer that capacity to our customers and then combine that with a transportation team, it allows us to differentiate even a little more by right thing, right place, right time, and that is next day. So our customers can drop their inventory levels that can keep their cash in their space to them. So trade Point is, is huge in being able to, to help us deliver that type of, of capacity. And then for us too, a lot of our customers are, are, um, are in the park.
Speaker 3 00:11:45 So you have 1.8 million square feet of McCormick. You have 4 million square feet of Amazon, you have a million and a half square feet of floor and decor, uh, home Depot a million and a half square feet, Niagara 600. So these buildings that are going up are massive. Our facility is 400,000 and we are one of the babies in the park at 400,000. Oh yeah. We have people come and visit and they get lost in the park and there's no way to spot us amongst these, these, you know, these massive buildings. And yeah, it's almost as if they feel like they can look around the corner and find us. You can't not when there's Amazon and Right. Uh, so for us, we have a customer base that's there. Uh, United Safety Technologies is gonna make gloves. So that was one of the outcomes of the pandemic.
Speaker 3 00:12:24 And they, I know, I, I know their ownership very attracted to Trade Point. It's proximity to Washington DC where they're doing this type of response for gloves and, and some of the things that, that we got exposed, uh, in the pandemic that were being made in other places around the world. And some of that is being reassured and Trade Point is a big target and a very natural choice. I mean, if you look at the, the East Coast, you have Newark and um, uh, Savannah and Charleston are the biggest ports. Baltimore has a huge opportunity to come in and start taking some of that market share because of our location. You know, we're in the center of the country, we've got great westbound roads, so the development they're doing there. And if you're trying to reshore into the US and you're coming from Europe, for example, which is an easy trip, uh, versus Asia, then it's one of the target areas that you mind. And we've got BMW and, and Volkswagen, your German manufacturers, that, that it makes a lot of sense for them to land there. There's a lot of other companies that want to do business here that will look at Trade Point Atlantic too.
Speaker 2 00:13:23 Thanks. I, I think it's also interesting that the energy companies that are coming in, so there's Two Wind or Ted and us Wind are coming to Trade Point Atlantic or are there come in transition and then also we're taking a really good look at solar in that plot of land cuz there is so much space. So, so that's really interesting to see that development mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, go online. But as m said, I mean if you are serious about growing your business and there's opportunity right now where eventually there may not be it, it's definitely a good time to take a look and, and get involved. Sure.
Speaker 1 00:14:00 Now the location I think is like really fantastic for workforce housing cuz you're surrounded by, you know, dun Dock and Essex and Middle River and um, you know, parts of the city and, uh, very affordable housing com compare when you compare it to some of the more expensive areas, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah, absolutely. So your, your workforce doesn't have to live that far, really?
Speaker 3 00:14:25 No, that's, that's part of that infrastructure too. So we talked about the infrastructure that is on that campus, but you just have to go over in all of those houses that were built to support Bethlehem Steel are still there. And we watch the gentrification in that area. You've got water all over the place. It is a peninsula. So yeah, if you're looking for waterfront and you're willing to, to buy a home that needs a little help or a little tlc, you can buy it there affordably, you can rebuild it and you can have yourself a, uh, a a wonderful place. And you might work around the corner too, or any type of, any number of, of levels of housing depending on what you're looking for.
Speaker 1 00:14:58 Oh yeah, it's there. There's, uh, you know, we, we've done episodes of uh, you know, dun doc and uh, we ha we have just, uh, we have one planned for Sparrow's Point and, um, just all around that area. There's a whole range of whether it's, you know, uh, recently renovated row house that sells in the hundred something range all the way up to, you know, a Cape Cod that was torn down Yeah. In a, a new newly built, uh, place for maybe somebody in upper management on, on the waterfront, but very affordable compare when you compare it to like Anne, Ronald County, Pasadena, suburban, absolutely. Park, absolutely. Oh yeah. Are, um, you know, some of the more, uh, expensive areas, a little, little more north mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, what about the restaurant scene around there? What's, what's, what's the food like?
Speaker 2 00:15:40 Oh, Ron, I'm so glad you asked <laugh>. Yeah. Yes. We are having a real problem with this. So there are some great little Dees and, and other spots immediately around. But when you talk, how many people are at Trade Point Atlantic right now? Roughly? I mean, so you have an Amazon building which has two or three shifts just immediately crossed. So in that building alone, there are how many employees?
Speaker 3 00:16:01 Uh, a few thousand and there's 15,000 that report to work at TPA every day around the clock
Speaker 2 00:16:07 Dedicated. And we have no restaurants whatsoever on the campus. We have food trucks that come in once in a while mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But there is such an opportunity for a great restaurant to come in and we always talk about having a great breakfast where there's a lot of truckers that come in and are there early mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I really think you only have to go through happy hour and then people leave and they're out. So it could be wonderful hours. I think the one thing that drives a lot of restaurant owners away is you can't run those typical, uh, demographics and statistics that, that you're looking for. Right? You're, you need this many people in a certain area and this many houses, like that's the way they run their metrics and it doesn't work right. In those typical metrics. But what you're missing, this is, this is a nuance.
Speaker 2 00:16:53 You're missing all the dedicated workers that come there every single day. I mean, talk about that gym, doggy daycare. I mean, the opportunity for retail and restaurant is gigantic. And I think for anyone that's listening and that would be interested in taking a look and, and potentially putting in a restaurant in, one thing to keep in mind is that the folks at Trade Point Atlantic are very motivated. They, they wanna get someone in there too. So there might be some partnership opportunity to help the first person that wants to come in, in a way that would make it more financially feasible from the beginning. You have two people who are willing to partner with you already too. So that's worth mentioning.
Speaker 3 00:17:33 Yeah. Look, we, we do what we do when we are not restaurant chores, but, uh, we are big consumers and, and we have the access and we know the team's a tpa and, and, uh, we would love to find a partner and, and we have a good idea on what would work. We have production Wow. And capabilities and we've, we've, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:17:48 Well, you know, you look, look for catering opportunities. Every business we have lunch and learns or we have big parties. I mean, just the catering alone, then you have their breakfast and lunch
Speaker 1 00:17:57 Crowds. Yeah. It's amazing. You, you know, because the, the people are missing the boat on all of those people there. I mean, so Yeah. Right. They're not, they're looking at like the how close the housing is and all that kind of stuff and they're not because it's this big and, you know, commercial Yes. Campus and what you need is like a Panera. Once a Panera goes in, then all the other, the CDOs, all the other people are like, I wanna be next to that cuz they studied it. Somebody's gotta study it and say, wow, this is different. It's like a um, you know, like in residential real estate we have a portfolio lenders that can look at somebody that's, you know, maybe they're an actor and they, they make a million dollars two years in a row but don't make any money because they're between seasons, which is a, a scenario we've, we've dealt with, right. Like somebody has to come in and say Wow, this is a lot of people just until like dinner time. Absolutely. Yeah. This makes a ton of sense. Yeah. And that will open the flood gates cuz once somebody comes in there then it's gonna trigger oh a Panera and then, you know, cause I understand like a Cordoba will see a Panera and say we don't even have to research it. They did their research. We just want to be on that and on that corner somewhere. Right, right next to it.
Speaker 2 00:19:03 Yeah. And I think as we said, the Paneras and the Chipotle of the world, I do think it's just we follow these metrics and if you don't meet it, we're out. So it might be a better opportunity for more local or one-offs to come in because they can do their own thing. Yeah. Um, and I'm not saying there wouldn't be for some of the bigger franchises opportunity, but I think it's maybe those, those other smaller, uh, partners that might, it might make sense. And it's not a zero sum game. I mean there are enough people to support several great spots.
Speaker 3 00:19:31 Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:19:32 They some barbecue, they're very smaller. Yes.
Speaker 3 00:19:35 It's gonna, it's gonna take some agility. So your point about, uh, smaller maybe with a proven concept, it's gonna take some agility. You're gonna be making breakfast and it's gonna be quiet after happy hour. Yeah. So, and then, you know, our, our uh, plan or or involvement would be to help de-risk it. We'd bring in the people from TPA who are interested in having more things on their campus. It makes them more attractive cuz I'm sure there are, you know, there are executives and or upper level managers who are making these choices to move to the park. And one of their first questions is, well how do I feed my people? You know, I want something attractive. I'm vying with for employees with all different types of industries. What's here that's attractive. So, sure. Uh, that's our commitment to it. And, and I promise you, if if she didn't do construction and I didn't do packaging, <laugh>, we'd, we'd try to figure it out. But we, we definitely know what we don't know and it's restaurant.
Speaker 1 00:20:18 Right. Right, right. So we're gonna wrap this episode up. Is there anything else you guys like to share about TPA or your businesses? Um, I am gonna go ahead and share your, your websites and uh, your business information on the post. Anything else you guys can think about.
Speaker 3 00:20:33 Just that we're always, uh, willing and able tour guides. You're always welcome to come and see our facility, what it looks like inside. It doesn't do it justice to look at these facilities from the outside. Yes, they're massive, but until you get inside. So we are always very ready, willing, and able tour guides inside and know the, the management at Trade Point and always happy to make introductions and we want as many cool neighbors as possible and you should come and see it. There's just an electricity about the park that's very unusual in the state of Maryland and in the mid-Atlantic.
Speaker 2 00:21:00 Yeah. And if anybody wants to start a restaurant <laugh>, you have two best friends already so you can add that value to your life. Awesome.
Speaker 1 00:21:09 So, uh, if you want to come into town and see, uh, tpa, uh, Tradepoint Atlantic for your business, uh, we will put uh, Brit and mix contact info in this post. Mark Regal with our team can help you on the, on the commercial real estate side. So, uh, thank you for watching this episode and we'll see you next time. Take care.
